Christmas Eve Special: HR Christmas Nightmares!

Tis our Christmas Eve special — and we’re diving into the stuff HR teams never forget… even when they try.

Siobhán shares anonymised “HR nightmares at Christmas” stories that range from jaw-dropping (a motorboating incident with a very questionable defence) to the painfully familiar (people passed out in toilets, tears in the loo, and the post-party investigations nobody wants). 

We also get into the messy reality of workplace hookups, the risks around power dynamics and consent, what happens when partners are invited, and why “what happens at the Christmas party” very often doesn’t stay there.

Content note: This episode includes discussion of sexual harassment/misconduct scenarios, alcohol, and workplace investigations. 

Got a story or a view? Email letstalk@whynotwhatif.com
— we might do a follow-up episode with your takes.

Transcript

Andy: 0:00

Okay, so this is the Christmas Eve special and uh this is the HR Nightmares at Christmas podcast, and we're gonna have a look at some anonymized examples of things that have gone wrong and things people have done at Christmas parties. So I'm gonna let you leap this one, Siobhan. So do you wanna kick off with the first juicy example?

Siobhan: 0:26

I mean, there there's so many, and and when I asked, I mean, obviously I've got my own stories, but when I asked some of my HR colleagues and friends to share some stories, it opened the floodgates, actually, because what I realized, I was talking to one of them and said, what we do is we kind of block them out, it happens, and then it you know, we've probably all got a bit of PTSD. So we block it out, and then when somebody asks you this thing, they're like, Oh, let's have a think, and they come up with a story, then they come up with another one, and another one, another one, another one, because now they're like, Oh yeah, I dream I remember this one now, and it's all stuff we've blocked out, so which is which is quite amusing in itself, but there are some shockers. I mean, in the last couple of podcasts I mentioned about fights. So I remember being at a Christmas do in a hotel, and it was everyone there levels across the whole business. It was banking actually, and there was a massive fight ensued, and that was a long lot of work after Christmas. The new year was like, Great, gonna have to deal with that fight now and do all this investigation and and disciplinaries and things, and I can't even remember what the fight was about, to be honest. I don't think it was anything in particularly important either. It wasn't anything majorly juicy, so things like that happen all the time. So I'll give you some examples. Right, first one is so a colleague who happened to be quite well endowed, had a teammate come up to her and motorboard her. He just couldn't help himself, apparently, and in to add to a bit of a spin to this story, he was actually gay.

Andy: 2:18

Whoa, go back a minute. So a curvy a curvy employee was she HR?

Siobhan: 2:27

Yes, she was actually HR herself.

Andy: 2:29

So yeah, so a curvy HR employee got motorboated by a gay male employee. Yes. Right, let's let's let's just break because my brain's struggling. What the fuck was he thinking?

Siobhan: 2:50

Well, obviously he wasn't, and the interesting thing is the fact that he was gay was his defence because he didn't mean it in a lecturous way, because he is you know, but it was something he just couldn't resist, apparently. But in his sober state, when he there they had to do the whole debrief about the whole thing, he was in tears about it because he actually realized what a stupid thing to do, and could not rationalise or make sense of why he'd even done it.

Andy: 3:22

That's that's insane. That that's absolutely insane. Like okay, I think there's a separate podcast in this one because I don't even want to go down this rabbit hole. So I'm gonna point at it and then I'm just gonna wave at it and run away. So his part of his defense was the fact that it wasn't meant meant in a sexual way because he was gay, which it's factual, right? He's gay, so he's not interested in women. No, I can't. I just can't. I can't even go there. I can't. Anyway, right, okay, go on, give us another one. That raises all sorts of questions, doesn't it?

Siobhan: 4:10

Yeah, a qu probably a relatively common one. Well, not common, but I've seen a few times, and some other people have have told me that happened to them, is someone flashing their boobs at the CEO. And I would add that not just boobs, but sort of mooning as well. That happens quite a lot. Okay, because again, seems like a good idea at the time.

Andy: 4:33

So, so again, an another separate podcast. What is going on in the minds of people? I I I was at an at an event, it was a company, it was a summer party, not a Christmas party, where a male colleague of mine walked over to the male CEO, dropped his trousers, bent over, and told him to kiss his ass. Yes. Yeah, that's that's professional suicide, aside from the fact that it's just what why why why back in the day people would go and as well photocopy their butts, didn't they?

Siobhan: 5:08

Do people still is that still a thing in this modern age?

Andy: 5:13

Well, it it was about 15 years ago because I did it at a Christmas party, but it it but that's kind of funny.

Siobhan: 5:22

That is kind of funny, as long as you're not using it, yeah, and uh like but with 3D printers now. Can you can you do 3D bucks? That would be expensive.

Andy: 5:31

3D scanners? Okay so this is where this is where Gen Z and Jen Alpha need to step in. That's the age-old tradition of photocopying your backside on a photocopy and now turned into you 3D scanning your backside, printing it on a 3D printer, and then giving it to somebody because that that right there is a great way of getting out of the exposure laws because you're not exposing yourself in public, you're just producing a 3D replica of your backside, which is what they're trying to be, or other body parts and and and yes, and other body parts. And the other thing is is that what a great sales tactic that would be. Like if you've got well, if you've got an amazing bum, whether you're male or female, right, rather than go around and oh, I've got to show you my bum to show you how amazing it is, just 3D print it and then you can share it with your friends. Yeah, you can carry it around in your bag or like a trend as well. Okay, I think we need to start a trend doing that. No, maybe we don't.

Siobhan: 6:30

I do think we need some young gen alphas and gen Zeds telling us this, though, because my perception, now I have teenage children, my perception is the next generations, the younger generations don't know how to have fun.

Andy: 6:44

I I I I would wasn't quite gonna put it that way, but yes, that's kind of I think they're more conservative and they are less they are more aware of their environment and their audience, I think is probably a good describe.

Siobhan: 7:05

They're not very adventurous, spontaneous.

Andy: 7:08

Spontaneous, yeah, no, that's fair.

Siobhan: 7:09

I think that's and if you look at pictures like us in the club in the in that in the noughties or late nineties, we're having a document violated. Yeah, yeah. We're having a great time. And when you look at them now, they're not.

Andy: 7:24

So I would like to they're all stood there with their tweed jackets and their flat caps and their and their phones, and their phones and their and their vegetable and fruit smoothies, and yeah. We're really discriminating now. We've got to stop this because this is massively.

Siobhan: 7:40

This is why we need them to phone in and tell us we're wrong.

Andy: 7:44

Yeah.

Siobhan: 7:44

Tell me there's hope for my teenage children that they will have some fun in their life. I d I want them to be safe and happy and don't do anything completely reckless, but I want them to have fun. So please, young generations, tell us we're completely wrong and we're massively biased.

Andy: 7:58

And tell us that we've made the judgment error in a in an uh in an apocalyptic way.

Siobhan: 8:04

Yes, yes, absolutely. Okay. So, yeah, going back to body parts, yeah.

Andy: 8:10

Which shall I go there? I won't go there. There's other so no, forget it. Okay. Um the other common one, what's the next one?

Siobhan: 8:23

The other common one we get a lot from HR is people passed out in the toilet. That somebody goes, Oh, get on HR to sort them out, or and we end up being counsellors. So that's the other thing. We're either police or we're counsellors or mediators. So somebody's crying in the toilet, or they've locked themselves in the loo, or they're throwing up. We're the ones that get called on sometimes to go and help.

Andy: 8:50

You're the four emergency services. You are the police, ambulance, fire, and the AA all at once.

Siobhan: 8:57

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

Andy: 9:00

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear. Yeah, that one in that the emotional one's quite difficult because I've had to deal with that a couple of times where an employee's been going through hell at home. I I know about it because they've been talking to me and I've been supporting them professionally with it and everything else. And then we get to the Christmas do, they have a drink, and it completely ruins your entire evening because they're sat on your lap crying their eyes out. They put themselves on your lap because of the circumstances, it's blatantly not sexual and it's a bit awkward when you want them to get off, but you kind of also don't want them to, you know, yeah, be upset. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's an interesting one. So, yes, it's also well, I suppose that comes under kind of knowing knowing your limits, really, doesn't it? Don't drink if you if you're struggling at home, don't drink, don't drink to the point where it's gonna ruin your evening. Yeah.

Siobhan: 9:54

Um the other thing is when you when people get together, which can be beautifully romantic, but hooking up, yeah.

Andy: 10:05

Let's call it what it is.

Siobhan: 10:06

It's hooking up is yeah, it it tends to it tends to be messy in those in those scenarios. Firstly, be discreet so that no if you're gonna do it, don't don't let anyone find out, especially HR, because then we have to deal with it. And you know, if anyone's got other partners and things like that, just do not go there. It's not a good idea, it's never a good idea.

Andy: 10:34

In the podcast that we recorded but didn't release, which was around the CEO and the HR lady who had an affair, one of the things we were talking about was the jurisdiction in which HR have the right to interfere in air quotes when people are having a friends with benefits situation right the way through to a full-blown relationship with a colleague. The reason that HR may have to get involved in that situation is because depending on who your employer is and what the job is, is that it does actually impact the business if you are in a relationship with your colleague. Now, let's not get into it now because it's killed and it's a other podcast which we do need to re-record at some point. But that's why HR have the need to get involved, and there's also a and it's a similar thing, I guess, for HR, but there's also a thing that the police have to consider when they're dealing with a situation like this in public, which many people don't realise. When you, as a police officer, catch a couple being amorous in a car, yeah, it's not just about the fact that they're doing that in public place and it's indecent, potentially indecent exposure or lewd acting public, whatever it the law is, but they also have to make sure that both parties are there fully consenting.

Siobhan: 11:56

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Andy: 11:58

Now everybody's heard horror stories about horrific things that happened at Christmas parties and all that kind of stuff. Whilst it's not HR's responsibility to verify the consent whilst the act is happening, the problem comes when consent is assumed or and I'm trying to be non-triggering here, but where it's not actually there, but things happen anyway, yeah. That becomes a huge problem, aside from the devastating impact it has on the p person involved, but it becomes a huge problem for the business, for HR, and actually for the police as well, because the police have to get involved or should get involved.

Siobhan: 12:40

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Andy: 12:41

Yeah, so it you know, under the normal common sense guidelines, don't sleep with your colleagues. But if you are absolutely insistent on it, whether you're male or female, just make damn sure that the other person involved actually is interested and they want stuff to happen because it it's I can't remember the statistic, but when I was working in the police, at this time of year, the number of reported cases of that nature goes up six or seven hundred percent.

Siobhan: 13:13

Yeah, I compared it to this.

Andy: 13:14

It's shocking, it's it's devastating and it's shocking.

Siobhan: 13:20

100% also make sure that they don't have another partner. Yeah, that's it. And if they're more senior than you as well, also just be a bit careful.

Andy: 13:31

Yeah, respect their position and don't and make sure that respect is both ways as well.

Siobhan: 13:37

Yeah, exactly. And if the you know, think about the power dynamics and all of those things. And going back to that podcast we didn't release about the Coldplay incident, which was the head of the owner or the M MD or CEO, whoever he was, having an affair with the head of HR. If you're the HR person implicated, this is one of the reasons why one of the things that I think was really unfair about that whole thing coming out was the fact that she was in HR is what made the the headlines more than anything because people hold us at a higher standard and they do that because they think we're judging them. And it's like, oh look, HR has been dropped off their pedestal. Well, that's not fair because we are human beings.

Andy: 14:21

Yep.

Siobhan: 14:22

But there also is a a thing around us probably being closer to people than others and knowing things that we sh that others don't know. It it's it it's really complicated. But from HR perspective, it's yeah, be careful.

Andy: 14:40

Yeah, it's it it it's not a notch on your bedpost or a medal to wear if you get one of your Celia management team in bed, it's it's a recipe for disaster.

Siobhan: 14:52

Yeah, 100%.

Andy: 14:54

So just to get clear of it, really. Okay. Go on, what's the next one?

Siobhan: 14:59

And then on that note, I had somebody write in with their their worst Christmas do experience, which was when they were at Christmas do with partners who were included. So this is an actual HRBP. Her husband was there, yet a senior manager still hit on her in front of her husband. And he was very lucky that the husband didn't punch his lights out. So, and that's the other thing, like from her her partner's perspective, it's like, well, we have to they they have to have a degree of professionalism as well. Otherwise, you're dealing with piggy shoes there. I didn't ask her actually what happened after the event. So I will f I'll have to follow up on that one. How was her working relationship with him since then?

Andy: 15:46

And there's another interesting point there is the legality of having partners at an event.

Siobhan: 15:51

Yeah.

Andy: 15:51

Especially around insurances and management and disciplinary proceedings. If what happens if the partner turns up and does something wrong, does the employee get the rap for it?

Siobhan: 16:02

Yeah, well, technically, no, but there probably would be a conversation.

Andy: 16:07

Yeah. Yep. Wow, okay. So there's a grey area to avoid. Um You say about affairs, that's an interesting one because there's also the notorious walk of shame.

Siobhan: 16:21

Yeah.

Andy: 16:22

Which is a little harder to hide if you're all staying in the same hotel.

Siobhan: 16:27

Yes, very true.

Andy: 16:28

There was one Christmas do I went to where one of the girls in the office was seeing one of the guys.

Siobhan: 16:46

Yeah.

Andy: 16:46

So they had to have separate rooms. Said lady decided to spend the night with a different colleague, but her boyfriend thought he would surprise her early in the morning and knocked on her door at six o'clock. She didn't answer. And as he was there knocking on the door, she came out of a room further down the corridor, looking a bit dishevelled wearing what she was wearing the night before. And it created a little bit of a disagreement, shall we say?

Siobhan: 17:14

Yeah.

Andy: 17:15

Now HR had to get involved with that because one, they didn't know that the two the couple were seeing each other, and two, she then had gone and slept with somebody else. So it wasn't just a sense check around the relationship, it was a sense check around the personal involvement with another employee as well.

Siobhan: 17:30

Yeah.

Andy: 17:31

Not to mention the personal impact for both the well, for the boyfriend, and also then everybody else who was rolled into the conversation because there was a massive argument in the corridor at six o'clock in the morning.

Siobhan: 17:45

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Andy: 17:46

Which ultimately ended up with the organization being banned from that venue for Christmas.

Siobhan: 17:51

Yeah, that's a whole other thing about organisations being being banned for venues.

Andy: 17:56

That's it. That's it.

Siobhan: 17:59

And I've had it as well where on the Monday morning husband, disgruntled husband or wife has marched onto the premises and kicked off about what they found out has been going on.

Andy: 18:13

That's not good.

Siobhan: 18:14

No. So there's that, there's those as well. This isn't a Christmas do, so it's not relevant, maybe. But I I was at an e working for a big corporate, and we had this event where we had all new starters joining within the last three months come to this like induction event, and they were held in different cities around Europe. This one particular one was in Germany. And a friend who had a bit of a reputation as being a a male flag. Can I say that? Um because he was my friend rocked up at this event because it was slim pickings for him for the newbies.

Andy: 19:02

That's predatory, that is.

Siobhan: 19:04

Yeah, isn't it just he wasn't really my friend after that, I have to say. Because also he took advantage of me because he got into the event because I mean he worked we worked at the same company, so it wasn't out of the realms of possibility. But if it wasn't me running it, he wouldn't it wouldn't have been so easy for him. So that was the end of that friendship, and actually his career kind of panned after that, to be honest.

Andy: 19:28

Yeah, and that doesn't surprise me because you I I mean I've seen that, but you see that a lot in senior leaders, they use their power and their authority to manipulate people into sleeping with them, which is quite I mean, that is predatory ultimately, it's quite yeah, yeah. Absolutely. God, it's a dark side to this, isn't there?

Siobhan: 19:49

There is a dark side to it, and and and this is why it's such a heavy time for HR because we're watching all this stuff play out, and even if we're not there, even if we're like, right, I'm not gonna go. We still sometimes have to deal with the repercussions of these things. And actually, sometimes it can be helpful if we weren't there because then we have to investigate it and we don't have our biases in place because we didn't necessarily see it or have our opinions on things. But yeah, it can be a busy old time for us. And they wonder why we get stressed out.

Andy: 20:23

And they wonder why you have a separate party when you can properly let your hair down near Easter.

Siobhan: 20:29

Yeah. And it is always near Easter. And in fact, hilariously, I am meeting up with my ex-colleagues for our Christmas due. Now there's four of us. Three of them have now retired, and we're still not meeting till Easter. And I'm like, Jesus, how is this ever gonna end?

Andy: 20:48

Well, it's hard to break a habit, isn't it?

Siobhan: 20:50

Yeah, it's hard to do that.

Andy: 20:52

That's it. There was one you mentioned earlier where there was the there was a Christmas party where the organization was kicked out the pub for a food fight.

Siobhan: 21:02

Yes. Yeah, and wasn't it so this this was one that was was called in. A food fight was started by somebody who was quite senior as well, and also adding to the mix blind, so wouldn't have been able to aim, I guess. I don't I don't know. And that would have that started a a free-for-all. And if you can imagine if it was like a Christmas dinner and there'd be gravy and all sorts of stuff flying around, yeah, that's gonna get you kicked out of a venue for sure.

Andy: 21:34

I feel I feel sorry for the the unconnected, unsuspecting guests at table three who were there for a quiet romantic dinner, suddenly getting a roast dinner slung all over them. God dear. Okay.

Siobhan: 21:47

Especially when it starts by a senior person.

Andy: 21:50

Yes. Well, yeah, which oh I mean there is it it's misadventure, really, isn't it?

Siobhan: 21:56

Yeah.

Andy: 21:57

What harm's gonna come from food slinging apart from criminal damage, assault, and various injuries as well.

unknown: 22:04

Yes.

Andy: 22:07

That's it. Did you see how my thought process was working there? That I was originally thinking, yeah, there's no real harm in having a food fight, but then as I was going through that monologue of crap coming out of my mouth, I was thinking actually people get hurt, yada yada yada, yeah. Maybe we don't do this. So yeah, top tip don't have a food fight at the Christmas party.

Siobhan: 22:23

And if you are vegan or something and you get like a lump of meat chat that you're org.

Andy: 22:30

That's not good. That absolutely isn't good. Well, there you go. So that's been your HR Nightmares at Christmas podcast. And we are now wrapping up for Christmas, so there won't be an episode out for the next couple of Fridays, but we'll be back in the new year with some more juicy episodes for you. Whatever you're doing, wherever you are, be safe and have a lovely, relaxed, chilled out, Merry Christmas.