Why Not? & What If?
A podcast about life, work, well-being and the beautiful chaos in between. Hosted by Andy Cracknell, a creative whirlwind and a disruptor of dull thinking and allergies to doing things the usual way. And Siobhán Godden who listens through the noise to what really matters.
Think of Siobhan as the calm in Andy's storm!!!
In each episode, we’ll dig into the stuff that shapes how we live and lead – from gender equality and parenting, to burnout, brave decisions, and big ‘what ifs’.
Why Not? & What If?
From Rock Bottom to Alpaca Dreams: Reinventing Life, Work and Identity
What happens when everything you’ve built suddenly collapses?
In this powerful and deeply personal episode of Why Not? & What If?, Andy and Siobhán welcome their first guest – “Farmer John.”
John’s consultancy business was thriving until the 2020 lockdown wiped out every contract overnight. What followed was a spiral into depression, financial uncertainty, and a complete loss of identity. But out of despair came an unexpected lifeline: an alpaca farm visit that sparked a new dream.
From boardrooms to barns, John and his wife Natalie reinvented their lives, creating https://www.franklyfarmtours.co.uk/ – a thriving visitor farm in Shropshire that has already welcomed thousands of people seeking joy, connection, and escape.
This conversation isn’t just about alpacas. It’s about resilience, friendship, identity, and how crisis can push us to rediscover who we really are. It’s about the permission to change, the signs we ignore, and the courage to take action.
If you’ve ever wondered what it takes to walk away from the life you thought you wanted and step into the one you were meant for, this episode is for you.
Got a story or a view? Email letstalk@whynotwhatif.com
— we might do a follow-up episode with your takes.
Andy (00:00)
Well, we have our first guest on the podcast today, which is rather exciting, Siobhan. I've been looking forward to this. So the guy who's joining us, we're going to refer to him as Farmer John and all will become clear a bit further into the podcast.
So I've asked him to come on and talk to us about...
a set of circumstances that I think a lot of people feel and experience in life when things don't necessarily go the way you want them to go or they're not, or external influences come in and mess things up. without further ado, I'm gonna introduce you to Farmer John. Hello, John.
Farmer John (00:41)
Hello Andy.
Andy (00:42)
Okay, so in a nutshell, I'll tell you what, let's start at very beginning. So you and I met when we were both working for a local authority.
And I'd gone in doing some marketing communications bit with my lovely wife. We did a bit of a partnership at that one and you were there managing the team, the internal team for that organization.
Farmer John (01:09)
Admin team, I think. Yeah.
Andy (01:11)
So you and I kind of crossed paths a number of times and you became involved with another organization, And that's where our friendship grew. then the shit really hit the fan, didn't it?
Farmer John (01:24)
Yeah. So I suppose it was interesting because when we met, was kind of, because I was a self-employed consultant and I had been since, so we met in 2015 and I think I'd been doing it since 2012. And I'd been very feast to famine. And so when I met you, it was like the first longer consultancy gig I'd had.
And it came as a time when I needed to be in something a bit more stable because it hadn't been very stable up to then. That's the irony of it in light of what happened afterwards. And then we kind of meeting the software company, profiling company, GC index was kind of really important. And I got introduced to them through you, didn't I? Cause you mentioned them to me. And then I then went on to build my whole service as a consultant around this tool.
So then I got to 2019 and I thought I need more meat in my sandwich here because I was still up and down with getting a piece of work as a consultant, getting loads of money in and then it kind of going quiet and then doing the same again. And I hit upon this idea that I could take this tool and adapt it to the public sector. And the other one, the other industry was the recruitment industry. And I thought these are two applications.
And it was all fresh out of the box. So I thought I can go off and I can build a way better consultancy business by working with those two markets And the short version of the story is I got a partnership with that organization that we work with together.
which would have given me access to police, fire, NHS councils in the West Midlands as a key service provider. And then the bigger one was an organization that was a member organization for every recruiter in the UK.
They signed a deal where they were going to promote my services to 11 and a half thousand recruiters.
So I'd spent 2019 up and down to London and up and down to the West Mid's trying to get these things off the ground. And at February 2020, the recruitment members' organization signed on the dotted line. And I remember
It was the first week of March. remember going down to London to train their team of 10 salespeople in the services that we're going to be offering.
And I remember we didn't shake hands. All of us that were in the room because there was this thing about this, this virus that was going around, but that was about the only effect it had. So I did the training and then I remember
The news got a bit more scary around this virus, didn't it? In the week after, I remember we would have conversations and I was yodeling a bit and we were saying things like, oh, it'll blow over, it'll be fine. And then we got to the 23rd of March, I think it was, and you had Boris Johnson makes the announcement of lockdown. And I'll never, ever forget it because I remember watching it in the living room in that day. can picture to this day where I was sitting.
And I just, remember my heart just sank as soon as he says, right, everything's going to stop. And I got the laptop out and I watched and I think within an hour of that announcement, my inbox was waiting, ping, ping, ping, ping, ping, ping. And all of the work that would have been my half of the income into that house for the next 12 months was gone within an hour. And both of those partnerships were on hold.
And they, the initial news was, yeah, yeah, yeah, we're still going to do it, but we've got to focus on our members. They need help with furloughing and all this sort of thing because of the nature of the organizations they were. And I just, I remember speaking to you and I was already starting to despair. And I remember you reassured me. Um, and to this day, you know, I'm forever grateful for what the conversations we had for the next 18 months, because I think that was one of the things that made the difference between
an alternative outcome and the one we've got now. it was terrifying and we didn't, and we were still trying to find the positives, weren't we? And maybe it will all come back. Maybe it will make people even more conscious about employee performance and impact well-being, know, and, I remember just felt like the nearest thing I can compare it to is it must be like watching your house burn down in front of you.
it was almost like it was teasing you because you had the initial hammer blow of, right, everything's stopping. But then I remember some of the stuff the government used to say back at that point, which, you know, we're going to turn the engines of the economy back on. It's going to roll back even stronger.
Basically, I was on the grief, the good old Kubler-Ross grief curve, know, where I was in bargaining for a bit. had the shock and then I was into, okay, there must be a way of using that creative strategic impulse that both Andy and I have got. There must be a way of using that to make this work, to make this into something that actually could be an opportunity for greater success. And it was probably...
around about November that year that I started to really realize it wasn't happening. But in the short term, and I'm not ashamed to say it, but I mean, the impact of that shock was on me was horrifying.
I had some scar tissue around failed ambition before, like I say, so it was a trigger, but there was more stuff going on. I was very money driven in those days, very materialistic, and I wanted to get all this material success because of my, to do with my relationship with my parents and my father's trajectory in life and so on, failed, you know.
failed promises and all this kind of stuff without going too far down that as a podcast on its own probably but also because Natalie my wife was an assistant head teacher and she was on a Fairly good salary and she was working herself to the bone and I wanted and maybe some of this is going back to Old kind of biases that maybe I mean I'm 45 So our generation was brought up with that, you know as a man you must provide for your wife
That's not really how I think but I think there was a bit of that unconscious bias in back of my head which is I need to show up and I need to deliver something.
Siobhan (07:56)
And just to reflect on your point about being a provider, we talk about in other episodes, from the woman's point of view about working, not working the balance of a family. But a lot of this isn't a lot of it is societal and all of that kind of stuff. But an awful lot of it is our own biases. Women feeling like, I shouldn't work or I should work and they're feeling guilty about whatever they do. But it's the same with men. And if you if you're brought up or have that
value that you want to provide and support and protect your family and that means bringing an income and all of that kind of stuff, then that's a real driving force and if you feel like you can't do that...
Farmer John (08:40)
I mean, can remember by the late summer, I was very much into depression and I was thinking about the height of bridges. a lot of people were in that situation by that point that year for probably for worse reasons than mine, actually. Thank God, you know, we didn't have, didn't have anybody that was impacted by it from a health perspective.
so that was, know, it was bad times.
Siobhan (09:02)
The consultants was there, there was nothing. There was no guidance, no income, no benefits, nothing. was just left. Figure it out for yourself and live from what you've got. Live on air, I guess.
Farmer John (09:15)
The only support was bounce back loan and by December I was forced into taking a bounce back loan. Again like a lot of people this will resonate with people listening because that's all there was and we had to have more in to pay the bills. So not only have you lost your
your business and your income to this government mandated house arrest, You also now told, but I'm not going to give you any help, but the only help we'll give you is to give you debt.
So it was awful.
And the only thing that was apart from conversations with people who cared primarily, and I'm not saying it's been nice, this is the reality primarily Andy. And obviously that. The only other thing that kept me going was Natalie came up with an idea which was she thought maybe she ought to take me out to an alpaca farm occasionally.
We used to go to, we were always a childless couple at the zoo. We used to go to farms and stuff anyway, and that was part of the ambition was we both wanted to live in the countryside. And she'd gone with our niece. She used to take our niece out, or we both did actually, but she'd been to this alpaca farm without me, I think I was working or something. And she said, why don't we go and do that? It was something that we were able to do at the time.
Siobhan (10:11)
No.
Farmer John (10:31)
And so she took me. And I was so despondent. just didn't need, was almost like, I've got to go. She yes, you're going. And I got there and started walking these weird, very cute animals around. And I thought, hey, I feel a lot better. For that, just for that hour, I forgot about everything. And so every time it got bad again and we were able to do it with the restrictions, she took me to the alpaca farm.
And it was the only place in that year where I in any way stopped thinking for any length of time about everything that happened. So it was weird. And I'll never forget it. It was Boxing Day 2020. So we couldn't go and see my family in the Black Country because we lived in Loneaton in Warwickshire. And we were told you're not allowed to go and see family. It's funny to say this now, isn't it?
Siobhan (11:21)
Yeah.
Farmer John (11:22)
And I hadn't seen some of them for a year. So it was just another body blow, like for many people. And that's it. Let's go to the Alpaca farm because you could do that. So we went and I'll never forget it. We did it. it was a ramshackle little place in Warwickshire. I mean, it was the place where you wiped your shoes coming out of it.
Siobhan (11:48)
Hehehehe
Farmer John (11:50)
It was proper rough. This shop was a shed. was like a garden. It was several garden sheds stuck together. And yeah, it was, it was very charming. And I remember I stood there and Natalie needs to go and use the extremely iffy Portaloo. I was like, I'm not using that. I'll leave. I stood in the, in the sort of car park and I, and I looked at it and I counted the people and did the maths in my head and thought this place makes money.
Siobhan (11:52)
Okay.
That's enough.
Farmer John (12:17)
doesn't make millions, but it makes money. I thought, I thought we could run this. Wait, this is a piece of cake this is, we could run this. That would be easier than going to London and trying to sell stuff to top executive teams and all this. And then this light bulb came on. And I said to Nat, she came out and said, do you think we could run somewhere like this? And she said, yeah, yeah, I think we can. And I said, and I didn't even say consciously, I just said, would you like to? And she said,
Think of what actually? And that was the start of something coming out of it. But that was a very momentary thing. And I remember a few months into the following year, should be 21, wouldn't it? I was still deeply, deeply depressed. And I still trying to get everything back. was still, I mean, I remember doing webinars for people. remember
coming up with different schemes. even did logos for like, you know, new initiatives to sell to companies. And I did all sorts to try and get something back and everything, everything failed, everything. And I remember we got to about April time of 21. And I said to Natalie, you know, this alpaca farm thing, were you serious? She said, I think so.
And at that point in time, she'd been out of the school for eight or nine months. And she'd gone into the COVID period tired, but still loved what she did. And she'd done it for 18 years and loved it. There were a few people I've ever met that genuinely loved going to work, she did. It was all about the kids for her. She was dedicated to giving the kids. And she worked in a very, very complex inner city primary school with...
30 different languages spoken and it was a four-form entry school, which means it was huge. It was almost like the size of some secondary schools. And she went back into the classroom in 21 when they were able to go back in and suddenly 18 years caught up with her and coupled with which they started turning into an academy, which meant the pressure from the leadership was unbelievable.
right on top of everything that happened and they broke her. And this person who'd always been an absolute tower of strength, who never showed any vulnerability of any real notes, suddenly joined me in the land of the depressed and, you know, it was just, it was so, so, it was awful. So I said to her, I said, you know what?
you when we said about the alpaca farm would you actually do it and she said well I think I probably would now you know and I said well where would we do it if we did it and we talked for a bit and eventually we decided shrubs here because you know it's nice that was the only reason
Andy (15:18)
I remember the conversation you and I had because you rang me or we had a zoom call because that's what we did back then. That was our way of supporting each other was to jump on zoom so I could see his pretty face and he could laugh at my ugly mug. And he said to me, Natalie took me to an alpaca farm last week. And for the first time in months, the corner of his mouth was pointing upwards and I was like,
brace yourself Andy, because something big's about to come out of his mouth. And he said, yeah, Natalie and I were talking about maybe doing this.
So I pushed and I pushed really hard. So we were on calls and I was like, right, John, what are you doing about this idea? And that's giving you the green light. What's the plan? What are you going to do?
Siobhan (16:06)
The thing is, you need people like that in your life because I mean, I this is quite an extreme example in terms of the situation that John and I got into in the sense of the COVID and the school and, you know, both of you in that place. But even with people I'm coaching now and myself when I went self-employed, there is this fear of, well, this is going off the expected track. This is, I'm going, I'm doing something different, especially if you're like a deputy head in a school, you know, that's a very
well respected career that you have until you die, right? So you kind of almost need permission sometimes to be like, this is okay. And you surprise them once you get those cheerleaders. There's lots of people around the guy, this is amazing. This is brilliant. You're like, it's almost like subconsciously again, you need permission to that this seems like a crazy idea. But you know what, actually, people are on board with this. And then it keeps you going, doesn't it?
Farmer John (17:04)
just want to agree what you said, Siobhan, because that and you downplayed your what you did, Andy, in terms of support and with the idea because
To be honest, having somebody, and bear in mind, early 2021, were still quite isolated still, they? So wasn't that we were talking to lots of people all the time still, it was still quite limited. Having someone trusted, like a close friend to say, you're not mad.
Siobhan (17:38)
That's it. That's the beginning.
Farmer John (17:46)
Yeah, exactly. And of course, at that point in time, I mean, from a, again, mental health perspective, my confidence was gone. And the only thing that was allowing that idea to live was the idea. It was just, there was just something there. And there was a sense of escape as well, that also was helping to make that idea attractive. It was a, you know, maybe I just need, we just need to escape it all. But I was still very attached to the old business at that point.
So someone else who can listen and not laugh or not say, what about this? Or what if you could just say, you know, that's mad, but I think you're onto something that was so important. Cause that, that idea could have died through like a confidence very quickly, you know, and Natalie still at that point, although she was getting burned out on teaching her identity a bit like mine, it was still, am a teacher. So
Siobhan (18:28)
Yes, absolutely.
Farmer John (18:42)
She was about, I'm going to get through this. I'm going to feel better and I'm going to carry on teaching. her identity hadn't shifted yet and neither had mine. Mine was still, I'm John Franklin Hackett with a company called Franklin Hackett Limited that sells this particular thing and I'm going to get it back. So someone's saying, you know, this alternative route might be okay. Like you say, it's huge, isn't it? Yeah.
Siobhan (19:04)
but it's changed.
Farmer John (19:06)
we decided we were going to have a go at this Alpaca farm thing. I, again, I say me because it was usually me saying these things. I thought it was at least a five year job. I thought it was five to 10 years.
So if we can do it by time of 50, because would have been 41 and that was 39 at that point, then we'll be doing well. So I thought we're to have to get a massive, massive mortgage to buy a farm. We can't afford it. Can't afford the mortgage we've got. That hangs to COVID. We were barely scraping it, were barely scraping it, truth be told.
So I thought, you know, it's going to take five years. So how are we going to do that? We need a very, very, very rock solid business plan. I can't find the energy to do that anymore because I just don't have any confidence in being able to run a business, but I do have confidence in the idea. So let's get some startup mentoring. And I found a company in Shropshire called Good2Great. It did startup mentoring. And I went to them and said, can we, can we get funded to join your course? And they said, yeah. So.
Siobhan (20:13)
Wow.
Farmer John (20:21)
Natalie said she'd find it helpful because she'd never run a business, so she wanted to do the course as well. So we started doing these courses in the evening in the office in the old house. And a lot of it was 101 to me, but it was helpful to get the structure again. And it was during that that someone said to me, well, while that was going on, I was writing this business plan document up. So Natalie was doing a bit and I was doing then a load of it and I'd run it past, you wouldn't, Andy, so I've come up with this.
And then it was during that course, somebody said to me, one of the mentors said, you ought to talk to a guy who's he's current high sheriff of Shropshire. And he runs one of the biggest estate agencies in the country. And they sell a lot of agricultural land. So I get a meeting with him and he's properly, you know, I'm a working class Dudley lad. And this is a guy with
He's extremely wealthy. But he was, you know, very, very well spoken and quite, but quite friendly with it. And I remember being a bit intimidated by the conversation, but he said, okay, what is it you want to do? told him. And he said, how are you going to do that? So I'm going to get a mortgage. I'm going to do a big business plan, get a mortgage in about five years time and buy some way. He you don't want to do that. And I thought, excuse me, if I do, don't tell me what and don't want to do.
Mr. and, and he said, No, no, no. He said, I mean, what I mean is, you don't want to buy a farm. I thought, here we go again. Look, you know, here's someone with lots of property, who's wealthy telling me working class lad from Dudley, I can't have property. And there was a bit of that talking about biases and stuff. There was a bit of that inherited
Siobhan (22:02)
Yeah.
Farmer John (22:03)
you know, prejudice that kicked in. anyway, he said, he said, no, no, no. He said, what you want to do is rent it. And to which my mind closed off again. I've never, I've never rented in my life. I was from that generation has brought up as most people probably have in some form in the UK have been told rents, they're dead money. And he said, you want to rent it because he said, you won't find a farm for sale very often when you do, they're very expensive because they tend to be very large.
You don't need that much land to do what you want to do. And there are loads of landowners, which are mostly family estates in Shropshire, who've got old farms where the tenants are dying off or retiring and they want to get somebody new in, but they're going to struggle. And he said, oh, there's a national trust. And he said, if you want my opinion, I wouldn't bother with national trust. I'd find a landed gentry estate.
So anyway, I rang off the call and I thought, nah, I'll carry on with the business plan. Then a little while later, another mentor said, have you thought about renting a farm? Natalie got the call that says, well, maybe we could. I'm like, no, no, no, not doing that. I'm doing the business plan. I'm going to get a mortgage in five years. Meanwhile, I'm going to get my consultancy back.
So I was caught between the two things. then eventually the guy that the mentor said, you need to talk with the chap that owns this mentoring company. So I was having a word with him, this guy called Johnny. And Johnny says, have you thought about renting from a gentry estate? I said, yes, we have. go, no, Johnny, we're not doing that. He says, honestly, he said, you're missing a trick, he said, and this is what got me. said, you know, don't you realize you could be doing this?
Instead of waiting five to 10 years, you could be doing this in a few months. And I thought, okay. All right, mate, come on then. And funnily enough, somebody else had challenged me. I was seeing a coach for a little while. Just I'd met through some networking while I trying to get the consultancy back and she'd been another useful mirror and she'd said to me,
Siobhan (23:58)
Yeah.
Farmer John (24:15)
you need to question some of your beliefs about money. And curiously, I'd managed to pick up a very, very small time consultancy client who was a financial advisor. And he said, this is the thing that changed my mind. He said, don't you realize a mortgage is renting the money from the bank?
Siobhan (24:31)
Absolutely.
Farmer John (24:33)
And I thought, God, he's right. There's no difference.
Andy (24:38)
They're all right, John, all of them, every, but all of the above were right.
Farmer John (24:42)
So, and then Johnny, who's the chap who owns Good to Great said, look, I happen to know a lady who runs an estate in Shropshire. And he said, she's great, lovely, very, very interesting and formidable individual, but she's very, very generous. And she'd love to talk to you. Do want me to put you in touch with her? And Natalie said, yes, before I had a chance to go, if but what?
Andy (25:06)
Good, well done that.
Siobhan (25:08)
Thanks.
Farmer John (25:09)
She's,
and then we get an email about a week or so later from her and she says, come and see me. So we end up, I remember it is October 21 and we're driving. It's a stormy autumn evening. do an hour and a half drive to the, place in Shropshire. And she's in this big old rectory that looks like something out of Midsummer Murders, a gorgeous old property, but very creaky. And it was making noises in the wind. was that kind of thing. And.
And she's really, really, really nice and very welcoming cup of tea, biscuits, you know, in front of the fire. And she said, okay, yeah, all very interesting. She said, could help you. There's a few places on the estate. She starts running off. We could put you here. We could put you there. She said, but the thing is, there's a guy doing our packers on the estate already. This is what Andy alluded to. I see her words. What I don't want you to put, I don't want to put you in competition with him.
I don't want to put him in competition with you because he's not fair on either of you. So probably the best thing to do is go and have a chat with him first. He might give you some help. And if it's meant to be her words were if it's meant to be, we'll speak again. So take other hands. I'm back in the car and we're driving all the way back to Nuneaton and Natalie's saying great. Good meeting. Good meeting. know, good meeting.
you know, got some more information. We've made new contacts and I'm like, yeah, but you didn't give us a farm. He says, well, we'll go and see this alpaca guy first and see what he says. So we then arranged the meeting and he's like, yeah, come and see me. So then about a month later on a cold winter's night, we drive over to this place called Carfley Farm and it's off this, the access to it is down the side of a pub. So I missed the access cause I saw the pub car park. thought, Hey,
And the lane, it's the middle of winter, it's the start of winter and everywhere looks a bit barren and it's not very nice weather. And the lane is it's clearly not been surfaced in ever. And I'm in a, I had an exec car in those days, a Lexus GS I was very proud of, I couldn't afford. And we're in that and it's low. And so I'm going down this lane and you know,
avoiding every single pothole, hitting loads of them thinking, jeez. And it seemed to go on forever. It's actually only a mile long, but it just seemed, because I was a townie, you know, I didn't know the countryside. It just seemed to go on and on and on. And then when you got to the top of it, it was so rutted, I could barely get the car over it. And I thought, oh great. Pull into this farm. There's a field on the left and I see the alpacas. I'm thinking they don't look too bad actually.
And then on the, as you come into the farm on the other side, there's, opens up into this courtyard of barns and there's the farmhouse on one side and the barns. And there's a fire on the go. Every place is strewn with rubbish and bits of kit and old, like an old vehicle here and there and kids' toys. There's a, and there's a washing line made out of baler twine that they wrap hay bales in, just strung off the side of the house onto a telegraph pole.
with someone's underwear on it and some of the underwear has blown off into the trees. there's a draught in the tree with mold on it. And he's just like, there's a little archway in the courtyard and there's two huskies in there behind a mesh screen barking away. And I'm like, where the hell have we come? A bloke comes out and it's this guy.
And he says, oh, I come through the alpacas, I've you. And it's from my end of the world. yeah. And like, yeah. And then as we walked down, there's this funnel, steel funnel next to us covered in blood. He's like, yeah, yeah, I'll kill my turkeys using that. Because he's got barns full of turkeys he's killing for Christmas. And he's been doing them this that morning and he's left the thing. I was like, oh my God. Oh my God, what the hell?
And anyway, we go up in the field, we have a nice chat about the alpacas and the alpacas look quite nice. And we're thinking, okay. And I said to him, how much is the rent? And he tells me, and I fall off, I nearly fall into the field with horror because I had no sense of proportion on money by then. My sense of proportion on money just gone because of the trauma of losing the business. So I thought everything was expensive because we, my attitude was we haven't got any money, even though we got
that salary we got debt now and I hadn't earned for over 18 months by this point. And I say what's your next plans for your alpacas because it turned out he'd been doing little picnics during COVID with them and making some money, which is a lot like what we wanted to do. And he said, yeah, yeah, I'm leaving. I'm leaving. All right, And Ted's going to live on the Isle of Islay.
Siobhan (30:07)
I'm gonna have
Farmer John (30:08)
But he then said, yeah, if you want to buy some of my alpacas, then you can.
Siobhan (30:15)
So.
Farmer John (30:16)
So I'm like, my head's saying, this isn't the place. This isn't the place. Dump, it's a dump. It's up a lane. It's a dump. And Ashley's like, send us the price. Send us the price, let So I'm going, not my vision. Doesn't look like what's in my head. Therefore, no. Ashley's saying.
And we drive back and all the way home, she's like, right, get the for them. It's from James. I'll speak to the landlord again. I'm like, no, I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. Anyway, cut a long story short. A lady from the estate eventually says to us, you know what, if you buy his alpacas, there's a 10 acre field up the road from his place. And if he gives the permission, then you can use that rent free.
for a few months and see how you think it might work.
Siobhan (31:12)
You're in May.
Farmer John (31:15)
At which point it was a case of, okay, how can we not at least try it? Bearing in mind we had no money to buy the alpacas. So that was Natalie again, goes into task and says, where can we get the money from? And she managed to secure a personal loan of about 30 or 40 grand, I think it was, because alpacas were expensive in those days. And there was kit we needed.
you know, other stuff in order to actually farm them. So she worked out, we could do it for just under 40 grand and, and the risk management was we could sell the stock off. We could sell the kit off and get a lot of it back. And, we'll earn it back through doing these experiences with them and that. And so we, just, and it was at that point that we met up in Warwick with you, Andy, I think, and your attitude was get on with it. Yeah.
Andy (32:09)
I wasn't going to take any shit because at that point, I hope you don't mind me saying this, John, but rightly so and understandably, your natural. So people like you and I are not risk averse with the opposite. We take risks all the time, but you'd had an absolute kick in over that period and you'd become incredibly risk averse. And that was in a loving way, frustrating because that was part of the magic of John that had disappeared for me. You know, it wasn't.
you and me against the world anymore. was, John's had an absolute kick in and I've lost my maverick partner for want of a better way putting it. And that was literally it. That conversation in the pub was, I don't want to hear, I'm not sure. I don't want to hear, no, I can't do it. I want to hear, right. And so the conversation was more directed at Natalie around, right, what's the next task? What's happening now? And
It was such a magic conversation because again, I'd seen John go from being this shell for so long. He got the colour back in his face. There was that excitement. The Americans call it piss and vinegar, but there was this piss and vinegar about him, was just like, there's sass there. There's proper...
There was still a lot of caution, but he was being influenced by Natalie's implement a drive, this task thing. And this is where their relationship's so beautiful, because I could see it in action. And that was a good, I drove back home that day, because I live down in Surrey. So it was a long, yeah, it was two, three hour drive back. And I just, I felt magic the whole way back. Like I'd just seen something really special. And then.
moving it on that the because I'm conscious of time, but the the conversations we had after that became very much the old John back around. He'd email me or text me go, Andy, quick, get on zoom. I've got something to tell you. I need to tell you this is really exciting. I was like, yes, he's back. Boom. So we get on zoom and he'd be telling me about, you know, the negotiations that they were having with the old farmer and the landlord and
you know, his worries and concerns and, and, know, to his point about, kind of hardwired biases around the way that he might be viewed and all, anyway, all this kind of stuff. And then how long after that was it that you officially launched? It was what?
Farmer John (34:27)
That was the December and then we got that offer in the January 22 and then we did the first Alpaca experience in April 22.
Andy (34:35)
That was it. So it was the four months. in that time, was when, so you're Frankly Farm Tours now, aren't you? So for those of you listening, look him up on Google, Frankly Farm Tours. That's when he, at that point, they penned their business, Frankly Alpacas, because they were specifically just Alpaca experiences. And it got really exciting then, because John and I moved back into this,
I don't want to say working relationship because it was so much more than that, but it was a working friendship where we were talking about, right. I mean, you gave me a guided tour on not Zoom, FaceTime, the farm and you were showing me everything and I was like, you can have like there's an old rose garden. I was like, you could do weddings there and you could do corporate events in the barns and you could do this, this and that. So we got back into that cycle of what, what.
What can we do next? So Natalie was doing the here and now and John and I were off thinking, right, we could do that, you know, do all this stuff. And through evolution and John, I'll hand back to you in a sec, but to bring it to the here and now. So you're now frankly farm tours and you and I haven't spoken. Well, we have spoken, but we've not properly caught up. the business is just, it blows my mind. I follow them on Facebook.
and socials and I'm sat watching the way that that business has evolved in such a short period of time. And hand on heart in a completely non-condescending kind of way. I'm so proud of my mate John because he's done such, him and Natalie, I'm proud of both of them, have gone from a world of despair. And there were days where I was.
I said to Emma, I'm going to have to drive up because I need to make sure he's OK. I don't know if he's going to make it to next week. I don't know if he's still going to be alive. I don't know what Natalie's going through to get to the point now where I'm sat looking at this guy who looks 20 years younger than he did in the middle of Covid. And everything I see and hear is is just pure success. And don't get me wrong. Right. We can't and we shouldn't paint out alpaca farms are easy things to run. They're not.
they've had their challenges and they've had to face adversity.
Siobhan (36:46)
there's a huge steep learning curve because you need to learn how to look after our packets. It's not something you can actually pick up in corporate world when you're your consultancy.
Farmer John (36:56)
Living in the country was, I mean, could tell you stories about the first year that was hilarious, really, in hindsight. But yeah, was really, really challenging. yeah, I it was amazing how in 21, we went from the start of 21, absolute despair to the end of 21, here's an opportunity to do something completely different. And then we had that interesting period, April 22, to about August 22, where we didn't live here.
So we were doing an hour and a half from Anetum to Shropshire every weekend to run these alpaca experiences to see whether this idea would even work or not before we committed to taking the farm off this guy when he left, because he was supposed to go about October. And we knew within a week it was going to work because the bookings just started coming in. Having to and having to kind of battle for any income at all from my side, it was just
Siobhan (37:47)
Wow.
Farmer John (37:55)
really weird how we were able to immediately get bookings. I thought, bloody hell, you know. And then we got to the summer and I was trying, still trying to get my work back because I thought we're to have to two incomes to support this. And it was still obviously it was not going to happen. And I really started to go down the pan mentally again, and physically thinking this is too big a risk. This is we are, we know
we are going to lose everything. And the idea was we're going to sell the house and the equity would pay off some of the debt from COVID. And then we'd have a walking the street fund, which would be enough to get us through about 18 months without an afterless salary of paying the rent, which we knew we would consume it because she would have to leave a job to do this. And we knew we'd consume it because any new business will, you you can't fund the running costs out of the business for a good few years.
And I just, I remember we had to buy a different car, to get it with my Lexus and get a four by four. And again, we had to, we had to kind of do that on finance.
Andy (38:57)
proper country boy now John you got a 4x4
Farmer John (39:00)
Oh yes, had to get it back out again, that's another story. I mean I did obviously, but yeah, I remember it was in the July and we were waiting for the house sale to go through because the guy that was here before us decided he was going to leave in the end of July. So suddenly the estate said if you want it, you need to sign on the dotted line at the beginning of August ideally because he's going to be gone.
Siobhan (39:02)
Well.
Farmer John (39:30)
And that knocked me over the edge. And I remember, I think it was a Monday, I got the worst migraine I've ever got to the point where I was throwing up and I was ill for about 12 hours to the point where I thought I'm gonna have to go to A &E. think something is going very badly wrong. I've never felt so ill in my life. And I was ill for a good few days afterwards. It was nerves.
Natalie was fine because as long as she knows what she's doing task-wise, she just keeps hanging on in there. But I just fell to pieces. And then I then got a call. They were doing the estate, they were doing the thing about the tenancy and they said, you need to show more income. And of course that hit every single trigger because it was my income that was the problem. And in the end, actually, it was a formality. It was completely irrelevant. And it was just a case of, oh, yeah, yeah.
you've got existing savings, that's fine, know, not a problem. It was very cursory, but that to me, the state of mind I was in was like, that is, we're going to fail again, and it's all my fault. And I remember I was literally so ill with anxiety, thought, I think I was about to give myself a heart attack to be honest. And the phone rang, and it was the estate. And it was like, right, all sorted, come and grab the keys.
Andy (40:49)
Well.
Farmer John (40:50)
And then since then, we've had, so that was August 22. We started trading from the farm itself in January 23, which really was the start of the business. Everything up to then was proof of concept. We've had over 7,000 people here. We've had...
We've gone from just a few alpacas to a full farm of cows, sheep, ducks, chickens, small animals. We've got a proper cafe now. We've got a function room. We are now an open visitor attraction, so you can just walk in. There's a petting farm. We've won a couple of awards, one from TripAdvisor, one from Good2Great, who helped us in the first place, gave us a startup award a few weeks ago.
you know, huge numbers of five star reviews, you know, God bless our lovely customers. And it's just been unbelievable. In really, I like to say only two and a half years from such an utterly different place to where we are now. So, I mean, if someone had said this to me on the 23rd of March, 2020, that you're going to lose everything you've been working hard for, but you're going to get this.
just hang on in there for a couple of years. It might have been very different, of course, hindsight's a wonderful thing, but...
Siobhan (42:17)
Sometimes you need that. When you were talking earlier about, you know, seeing opportunities and stuff like that, sometimes you need a crisis because you did have a lot of limiting beliefs around money, about expectations, about responsibility. And it takes something dramatic sometimes to break those down. then for you to, because there was a load of signs. When I've heard your story, there were so many signs. was
this farmer happens to have some alpacas and this happens to be this program here and this person happens to have a farm. That actually you could ignore all of those signs if you weren't looking for them and it took that situation for you to look for them.
Andy (42:57)
Do remember the conversation you and I had, which is exactly what Siobhan's just said? And it was at that point in the January of, I think it was January 21, where I literally, we were on a Zoom call and I metaphorically slapped you and said, you'd be an idiot not to do this because all the signs are there. Everything is dropping into place. And you were quite resistant at that point. And I was like, for God's sake, John, just listen. Look at all these things. Tick, tick, tick, tick, tick.
Siobhan (43:23)
Yeah.
Andy (43:27)
Which is exactly what Natalie was saying to you at the time as well. was, but what was the benefit of that for her was that she wasn't seeing them as signs. She was seeing them as tasks to complete. And, it was, it was just that magic of that. I think that was the only time you and I ever had, it wasn't really a heated conversation, but I got frustrated. was like, come on, mate, look, look at the signs. They're there.
because I'm quite a romantic like that. look for signs in life. And I was really conscious because John's not like that. He's, he's. Yeah, yes. But yeah, but I desperately wanted him to see something, whether it's religious, whether it's spiritual, whether it's whatever it is, something out there is saying, John, for goodness sake, just do it. And then that was it.
Farmer John (44:00)
imperialist.
Siobhan (44:15)
Yeah, and it's almost giving you the permission that when you're going to do something which is completely different off the wall, I've got lot of limiting beliefs about this, I need permission to do it. That's the little universal signs telling you this is giving you permission to do these things.
Farmer John (44:33)
It's interesting to use the word universe actually, Sivan, because there's a lady I've met through networking for the consultancy and she was another mirror at that point in time. I spoke to her a few times and she was a coach. And I'd had that conversation with you and Nandi. And then I was thinking, wasn't long after that, I had a conversation with her and she said, how's this farm thing going? I told her where we were and I said, I'm not very confident in doing this. I think it's too risky. I need to get my business back.
And she said, she said, well, maybe the universe is pointing you in another direction. went in my head, I go, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm not that way inclined. Natalie is quite fatalistic. I'm not, very, not so much now, but I was still very rational, empirical, you know, right, you know, where's the evidence? And she said, she said, as regard the consultancy, she said, you're pushing too hard. You're pushing for something to happen.
and it isn't happening. So when are you going to understand that you need to stop pushing? I said, I can't stop pushing. So if I don't push your work, I'm not going to get any consultancy work back in. I'm not going to able to make my half the income. if this doesn't work, then she said, yeah, but what if the farm works? And as I said, yeah, but you know, I've just had a business idea that would have worked. She said, you've got to let go of that. And she said, look at what
And she referred, I told her what the conversation that you and I had, Andy, and she said, well, why don't you listen to that then? Because that's what he says is right. He you are being directed in a certain direction and luck happens when opportunity meets preparation, right? So, and then what happened at the same time is that financial services advisor I had as a consultancy client, I wasn't doing any work with him, but I asked him for a viewpoint. He was involved in.
mortgage lending and commercial lending. And this was, I'd say July, 2022. And he said, right, John, listen to this. said, the housing market is going to go through a difficult period. The mortgage rates are going to go up. He said, based on your mortgage at the moment, you are not going to able to afford your mortgage in a year. He said, but your house is worth a lot of money. It's probably at his peak. If you sell it now, you'll get the maximum value out of it. And if you go and rent, said, you could sit it out for five years because he's going to be turmoil.
How true was that? He said, you do this, you'll be away from all of that damage once. So he said, you've got to know about what COVID has done to your business and your life. The next thing is going to be the cost of living crisis. And he quoted it in those sort of words. He was very prescient. And he said, so the best thing you can do is go and sit out in a nice country estate in Shropshire and build yourself a nice business.
because when this is all over, you might have something you can do. If you want to get back into property, you can. And it got to the point where it was just, couldn't ignore all that information. And like I said, and when it happened, it just happened so, it's happened so rapidly. And while we have had very challenging times here, we've had, mean, for example, Natalie and I couldn't live together for the first year because she had to stay in her job in Coventry because she had to give a year's notice.
By September 22, I'm here in the farmhouse on my own in the winter, never having lived in the countryside. When that's 40 miles away in the week on Mondays to Thursday nights, we'd never been separated that long. was quite tough, but out of all that risk and all that uncertainty has come something
Andy (48:12)
Check.
Farmer John (48:14)
Yeah, which is, and someone said to me this morning, I was running a cow cuddling session and someone said to me,
Siobhan (48:20)
What?
Farmer John (48:20)
I know, I know, it's in my lifetime. I'm standing in the ruins of the walled garden with our little mini cows that we've got doing a talk about them and rooming them with brushes and giving them cuddles and this person said to me, have you got any regrets? And I said, yeah, but I didn't do this 10 years sooner.
Siobhan (48:32)
Amazing.
Yeah.
Andy (48:42)
It wasn't right 10 years ago though. It would not have worked. It would not have worked for you. And it would have been, yeah, it just wouldn't have worked. I think it's been so nice talking through this, because it's been a while since you and I have reflected back on those times because we're forward looking and there's almost an unwritten agreement between John and I that, you know,
I mean, I was going through my own struggles at that point, but we don't look back at that because it's passed and it's done and we're where we are now. Right. But it's so refreshing hearing that story or revisiting that story because you. John spends a lot of his time and the way you've heard it, the way he talks about his wife, trying to enable others and that's how.
raise in debt, right, is we're on this planet to help others succeed. And in doing that, we're successful in ourselves. I would surmise that what you've done over the last, well, since 2021, is probably far more impactful than everything else you've ever done combined. And the reason for that, and I think you realize this, John,
is that you mentioned earlier, you've had 7,000 people to your farm. You've only got to go onto Facebook and look at what people say about the place. And you've only got to be a human being to understand the impact that animals have on people and how good they are for humans' mental health. What you've achieved is not just about the fact of all of the above that we've discussed, but you've got 7,000 people walking around who've had that experience, who've had that boost that you got.
that day back when Natalie slapped your ass and said, we're going to an alpaca farm. And that lifted you out. And it took you out of that depression just for the day. Yep. It was just for that period of time. But the circle on karma is that you had that experience back in 2020. And now you're giving, now you've given it to 7,000 people who may or may not be suffering in life. We don't know, right? Everybody's got problems, then not everybody, you know, there's different levels of problems.
Siobhan (51:00)
I might just want a moment of joy.
Andy (51:02)
Yeah,
exactly. And you've given them that. And I can't help because I can't help it. But I I watch your Facebook page like a hawk and it's continual. Wow, what an amazing day. Or if Natalie puts up a thing about an upcoming event, it's the people saying, so and so they tag people. We've got to go to this. We've got to go to this. You don't get that kind of social media engagement.
from somebody who has just set up a business for the sake of making money. This is the other point, because you referenced earlier that you used to be quite materialistic and money driven. I would actually respectfully slightly disagree because your motivations behind being materialistic and money driven were not around, I want possessions and I want money. was about, it was born off of...
life trauma, but it was also born off of the fact that you were striving to do stuff to take the reins back from Natalie to give her some breather. So let's just be clear on that, that that actually is not a negative thing that you were materialistic and money driven because it was, you had the right motivation, the right reasons behind being motivated that way. But now your impact on the world is far greater than the bottom line. And that's what I think is really special about this story. And
You know, it just, yeah, you know, from my side of it, and I'm going to stop being a soppy git, but this set of karma or this set of circumstances has given me my best mate back. And it was, it was a guy I thought I'd lost forever when COVID hit and all that shit happened. And I felt so helpless at not being able to pull out, you know, pull you out of that ditch. But as soon as somebody built that brick wall in front of me that I could lever against to get you out of there.
That was what validated my raise in debt, which was to help. But I just, I've got to go back to this because Siobhan chuckled and it was really funny because I can obviously see the two of you because we're on Zoom. But the cow cuddling, I mean, that sums it up, right? So you've gone from complete carnage, financial ruin.
Business is screwed into the ground, getting screwed over by suppliers and contractors, which you haven't gone into, but I'm going to mention because I don't care what the consequences are. And you've got to a point where you're now helping people cuddle cows. I mean, how magic is that? It's just unbelievable.
Farmer John (53:21)
It is crazy. is crazy. Go on Siobhan, sorry.
Siobhan (53:25)
How do you feel now about your consultancy?
Farmer John (53:30)
I couldn't give a flying pro- Yes!
Siobhan (53:33)
Thank
Andy (53:37)
There you go.
Farmer John (53:37)
I can pinpoint when I stopped caring, when I realized I'd stopped caring. got a gig some time ago. So I've done a little bit since I've been here. Not a lot, but I have done some. And it was an opportunity that I would have given my right arm for in 2019. I was talking with, was involving some top leaders in a, in an interesting sector. And I'm not going to give details because
I had respect for the business relationship because it wasn't that long ago. But it was something I would have been, I would have felt was very prestigious to have pulled off. And I remember going into thinking, this is just a bit of pocket money. And I sat there and I did the work and it was fine. It was enjoyable, but I could, all I could think about when I wasn't focusing on being the best I could for the client was the farm. And I thought, I don't, I don't care about this anymore. When I heard people talking to me about their world, the corporate world and
their challenges, organizational, cultural. I thought, I couldn't give a damn. I thought, I'm just not interested. It's not me. And I suddenly thought, my God.
Siobhan (54:42)
It's me.
Farmer John (54:43)
That's not me anymore. Yeah. I thought, yeah. So yeah, that, yeah, I just, it literally, there's no other phrase that that is just not me anymore. I can do it. And if I'm asked, I'm very happy to do it. And not just
Andy (54:58)
do
it well, you do it really well in fairness to you, the stuff that you delivered at that client that you and I worked at and the stuff I've done with you since, I have got to say John, you're one of the best out there when it comes to that specialism. And I'm saying that from a point of credibility because what I do is very different to you, but because of the nature of the work I was doing, I could see the impact of what you were doing. So let's not dismiss that because you were bloody good at what you did.
But that's why I find this interesting because you made a really important point and that was you just said, I was delivering, I can't remember the words you used, but something to the effect of I was doing my best for the client, which is all that the client could ever want is that you do your best for them because that's how you earn your money and you want to have that impact. But this thing around, it's not me anymore. That's so powerful. So powerful.
Farmer John (55:51)
this thing about how how your identity can shift and you can
I'm probably gonna go around the houses today, we get a lot of people who come to the farm ask for the story behind it. which is interesting, I'm always thinking, why do they ask? That's interesting. Maybe that's a sign of the times, I don't know. And then I usually say something to somebody, people often will say things to me like, say, you're living my dream. they raise it like that. And I'm often thinking, no, I'm living.
we're living our dream, but I usually say to them, what is your dream? And they'll say to do what you're doing. And I say, go do it. And they'll say, I can't. And I'll say, why? I've got kids. I haven't got the money. And I say, didn't have any money. Just go do it. Life's too short. And they can't see past. Yeah, but you know, I've got to, I've got to, I only got 15 years left before I retire. I've got a mortgage. I've got a salary to maintain. they can't see past that. And I remember,
every time it happens, I think that was what I was like. Because that was identity, my identity was rooted in, I'm, you know, I must bring home the bake and I must have a certain standard of living, also a certain standard of money. And so I couldn't see how to be anything other than that. And identity was I'm, John Franklin Hackett, and I'm a consultant who works with XYZ. And now,
You know, I'm my alter ego on social media is farmer John, which makes me laugh. And to really kind of bring it home is I don't want this to sound egotistical because he's not quite embarrassed by it. But we were doing our Easter event here, we had lambs in the barn and we were doing talks on sheep farming and on lambing and we were letting people hold lambs and bottle feed and stuff. And
I've done a few of those talks. I went into the cafe for a break and there's this kid and he's playing a video of me talking about something that happened here a couple of weeks ago on our Facebook. And then I walk and this kid says, look, it's Farmer John.
Siobhan (57:59)
I'm still famous!
Farmer John (58:01)
I go, I turn around like, where? then it's happened again with a couple of adults about two or three times since. And I thought, what? And then, and that was to me, it kind of summarized kind of the shift in the identity, which is, you know, your identity is built out of a lot of things, isn't it? You know, beliefs, upbringing, but it's,
it can be flexed. if you, and one of the things that happened in 2020 with that big disaster was that one of the things that was compromised was my sense of identity and sense of self, which was the person I'm trying to be, I'm now not allowed to be because circumstances are stopping me from doing it. And the only way out of it was to find out who I actually was. And the irony of all of this is this is really who I was from day one.
the 20 years before this from uni to, well it's a bit more than 20 years, but whatever. That period was one of actually slightly going in the wrong direction for lots of complicated reasons that most people have probably got some version of. And that massive adversity has forced both, not just me, but both of us, both Natalie and I, to find out what we're really about. And my brother's put it like this to me, and I think what we're about
We want to make people happy. And you said, Andy, that the irony of all of this is that we're now giving people what we got when we needed something, me in particular at the time. And Alpaca Farm was the place that we got that moment of happiness that allowed us to stay in game. And in my case, me from sinking further into the abyss.
we've taken that experience and we now offer that experience to others. And it wasn't ever done initially to do that for altruistic reasons. It was done because it was a way out and we wanted to. But in reality, the thing that gives us the most pleasure, Natalie would say the same if she was on the podcast, is seeing people smile and seeing people who can sometimes will tell you their life story. That happens quite a lot as well. People will say things.
Just two days ago, someone said they just recently lost a partner. And they'll say things to you like, coming here has really helped take my mind off it or coming here has really helped me to think for five minutes. And that's actually what we get the most satisfaction out of. Yes, it's good to see the visiting numbers going up. It's good to see the money coming in. And obviously we need the money. And we're still at a point where the business is now paying for itself, but it needs to go further financially. But actually what makes us happy is to see people smile.
I wish I'd known that 20 years ago. the reason I wanted the school building when I was 22 is I wanted, because that was the one place in that school where I used to get hideously verbally and physically bullied every single day, where I was happy because my hobby is music and drama. And so it was the one place at lunchtime I could retreat to to get away from the bullies. So the whole point of buying it for the community was to make
give people a space where they could be happy. And if I'd have known that was my purpose in life. But this is how you find out, isn't it?
Siobhan (1:01:10)
And this is why when you talk about midlife crises and you had a genuine crisis but somebody told me that a midlife crisis isn't a crisis it's a time where the books unwritten because up until that point you just do what you're told fundamentally you have to go to school you maybe go to uni get a job you have to have a career and all of a sudden you're like I've done everything I've been told to do nobody's telling me to do anything anymore I don't really know
who I am or what I want because I've just done as I've told. Sometimes it takes a genuine crisis to have that opportunity to go, but who am I?
Farmer John (1:01:49)
mean, why do we take the mickey out of that as a concept? That's an interesting question, isn't it? It seems to very common that people have this, what we call a middle life crisis. And it's something that's ridiculed, that's seen as shameful, all the stereotypes. If you're a man, you get going to have an affair and you ride a motorbike. I don't know what it is for women, but it's all nonsense, isn't it? And the reality is maybe we should be encouraging people
to have them and to find out and to support people through that process of change. Because I think you're right, Siobhan, when you get to your 40s, there's a lot of dissatisfaction that comes from following the path that we're told we have to follow, isn't there? But you start to, obviously different for every individual, but a lot of people seem to say that they start to not give a damn as much in their 40s about how they're perceived. They just want to be happy and they want to be authentic. And so maybe this
Siobhan (1:02:28)
Absolutely.
Farmer John (1:02:42)
whole midlife crisis is actually people saying, I need to reconnect with who I really am. I've done, I've played the game for 20 years. Now it's time to play a different game. And maybe there's something in that maybe we need to be supporting people through it and not ridiculing.
Andy (1:02:57)
This is our why not what if, isn't it?
Siobhan (1:02:59)
Okay, it is, yeah, absolutely.
Andy (1:03:03)
John, do you want to just give a, I suppose the marketing or the selling spiel. So you're frankly farm tours, you're on Facebook, Instagram.
Farmer John (1:03:16)
Instagram, TikTok, YouTube.
Andy (1:03:17)
Okay, and you are, whereabouts in Shropshire are you? So give us the location and exactly what you've got and what you do. Give it a plug.
Farmer John (1:03:26)
So we're an open visitor farm in Broseley in Shropshire. So Broseley is between Ironbridge and Bridge North and just south of Telford. We're only 40 minutes out of the West Berlin's conurbation if you're in the black country of Wolverhampton. And we're an hour from Stoke and Stafford in terms of location.
So what we're all about is giving people an unforgettable experience with our animals in an amazing location. So it's about being hands-on with the animals. We're only a very small farm. Everything's within a single courtyard. You can get up close and personal with all of the animals and you can just enjoy the surroundings of a beautiful area of the world where you can be at one with animals and one with nature.
Andy (1:04:13)
And are you allowed to, just as a bit of a teaser, share what your next development plan is?
Farmer John (1:04:19)
So at the moment we've just implemented our cafe, we've got a new car park. And so the next step is we are going to add a proper entrance building and a gift shop. And then the next thing after that is we want to do something to do with recreating the...
farm shop is what it was many years ago. rather than it being a place where you pay a premium because it says farm shop, a place that gets better quality food into the hands of people at a better price or a comparable price to the supermarkets that rewards the producers and cuts out the middlemen. That's a longer term one.
Andy (1:05:06)
exciting stuff. John, before we let you go, I have got to throw it over to Siobhan. There must be a million questions come off the back of all that stuff. Is there anything, Bernie, you want to ask or? Yeah, good.
Farmer John (1:05:22)
Go.
Siobhan (1:05:23)
as we were going along. One thing that's bubbling in the back of my mind, and I'm not sure if I should ask this or not, is have you considered combining your consultancy with the farm and seeking retreat?
Farmer John (1:05:35)
Yes.
Andy (1:05:40)
I'm not.
Farmer John (1:05:40)
Andy
might have had a conversation along those lines with me.
Siobhan (1:05:43)
Okay.
Farmer John (1:05:45)
I
Andy (1:05:46)
I love the way you just put that Andy might have had a conversation with me about this. think it was more Andy told you that you need to start looking at the team away days.
Siobhan (1:05:57)
I'm thinking retreat. You need, people need, when I'm to leaders, especially men, actually, because I think women are much kinder to ourselves in giving us the time. Sometimes we will have retreats, we'll go to spas and things like that, whereas men don't tend to. And I'm working with some business owners at the minute and they're thinking about setting up something where business owners, leaders can go.
Farmer John (1:05:59)
Thanks.
Siobhan (1:06:24)
with other business owners and leaders and just be in the fresh air. They were talking about things like ice baths and stuff like that, but animals is the big one where they can, you know, if you're doing a strategy day, don't do a structure strategy day. Actually just spend the day hanging out with the animals, chatting to each other. There'll be loads of amazing ideas that are gonna come from that.
Farmer John (1:06:47)
Yeah.
Yeah, that's one, I mean, that's a whole other topic, you know, in terms of entrepreneurs burnout, because one of the great things when you got something off and running is there are loads of ideas of your own and lots of people offer more ideas and you want to do all of them, but there's only so many hours in the day. Having said this, having just come off a two week Easter holiday period where we had over a thousand people through the farm and we got
to the end of it and both of us were poorly through sheer exhaustion, we were doing 90 hour weeks and so you have got to manage your excitement with the realities of there's only enough hours a day to implement like one or two things but yeah we'll get there though. I wouldn't have said this three years ago, I wouldn't be saying we'll get there though, I'd be you know so that's a good example of the light coming back on is Fatamachi smiling and saying you know we will do all of them it might just take a few years.
Andy (1:07:42)
It's John, it's been a real pleasure. Thank you for being so open about that story and kind of everything you went through.
Farmer John (1:07:47)
All
Siobhan (1:07:51)
I think you'll be an inspiration to many of my coaching clients that I talk to. Because a lot of them, the topic is being dissatisfied where they are. Maybe they've had some even have PTSD from their jobs previously, you know, there's some there's some stuff going on out there. And this will give people that permission that you had that you can go and do something different.
Farmer John (1:08:13)
Yes, absolutely. And bless you for saying it, Siobhan. And if I say one last thing, I think it's just because I feel it's pertinent after what you just said. We are not special. Natalie and I are not special. know, just, the only reason at a basic level why we are living the life we are now compared to what we were in those circumstances is just because we took action. yes, we took action partly because we had a huge amount of support from the great.
great people, Andy being a primary mover in that whole thing. the only thing that's different is we did it. And we had plenty of reasons why we couldn't or shouldn't. So if someone felt as if they couldn't make a change in their life, but they wanted to, the message is you can. You don't have to be the richest person, the cleverest person, the most privileged individual on the planet.
There are ways and means of doing it, but the key thing is do it because it's worth it.
Andy (1:09:11)
John, your website.
Farmer John (1:09:14)
www.franklyfarmtours.co.uk and that's frankly as in frankly my dear I don't give a damn FRA NKLY
God bless you.
Andy (1:09:25)
Alright,
thanks very much John, Siobhan, love you as always, really enjoyed that, until the next time.
Siobhan (1:09:32)
Thanks, John.
